It went exactly as I suspected, her response to me was all about HER. HER pain, HER suffering, all SHE'S been through, much of which is apparently because of me. At this point, I am done. My next response to her will be my NC letter in which I tell her not to contact me anymore as I've had it with her and her narcissistic BS. I'll be sure to post a copy of that letter when I send it!
As for my NF, still no word from him. My best guess is he's behaving the coward he is and is hiding behind supposedly being "too busy". Nice, huh? His daughter expresses her hurt in a phone call with his wife (which I know he's heard about by now) and then follows up and writes him a heart felt letter, pouring out her pain (which I'm also convinced he's either read or heard about by now) and he still cannot be bothered to contact me himself. I will likely give him the opportunity to respond to my original email but if it's filled with more of the same BS I got from his wife - and I strongly suspect know it will be - it'll be NC for him as well.
Here is the email with NSM's responses. She chose to insert her comments throughout rather than typing it all in one email so that's how it will be posted. I edited it to put her comments in blue so that it's easier to read. In the original, it was in the same color and font and was very hard to make out which was hers and which mine. I should also add that NSM is dyslexic so her writing can be hard to decipher at times.
For the record, I will put my responses/feelings to her comments in a separate post so that it's not insanely long.
Here ya go...
~~~~~~~~~~
Before I begin, I wanted to let you know that we received your package today. On behalf of ds, thanks so much for the gifts. We haven't had a chance to go out shopping and spend his birthday monies yet but he really liked the Spongebob name picture. We're going to put it up in his room tomorrow.
Since we last spoke, I've been doing quite a lot of thinking about our relationship. Obviously, I love you both very much and I don't want to just end things on a bad note and walk away. It's been hard enough the past 15 months or so dealing with the whole situation with mom. Unlike her however, the two of you have put forth some effort over the years to try and make things work which is why I'm writing now in the hopes that we can find some middle ground on which to move forward.
My main issue is feeling not heard by you both. The problem when you were in town recently was not that you wanted to take ds out, which is what I suspect you both may be thinking. I was fine with taking ds out shopping to one or two places. Rather, the problem was the restaurant itself. One, it was located outside of the area distance-wise that I am comfortable traveling. Two, it was a restaurant and restaurants are one of the places I avoid as they invoke extreme anxiety. Doesn't matter where it's located, what size it is or how many people are inside, the result is the same for me - intense anxiety and panic attacks. (And just in case you were wondering, I can assure you it was not the company either. If you were to ask dh, he'd tell you I refuse to eat out with him as well.) Lastly, as I mentioned previously to you both, there is the issue of eating out causing me rather bad stomach distress. My best guess is that it's the way it's prepared. Whatever the case, with the sole exception of Subway, eating out for me = bad gastrointestinal distress for hours afterward. Couple that with my anxiety and it's just really not good.
Since we last spoke, I've been doing quite a lot of thinking about our relationship. Obviously, I love you both very much and I don't want to just end things on a bad note and walk away. It's been hard enough the past 15 months or so dealing with the whole situation with mom. Unlike her however, the two of you have put forth some effort over the years to try and make things work which is why I'm writing now in the hopes that we can find some middle ground on which to move forward.
My main issue is feeling not heard by you both. The problem when you were in town recently was not that you wanted to take ds out, which is what I suspect you both may be thinking. I was fine with taking ds out shopping to one or two places. Rather, the problem was the restaurant itself. One, it was located outside of the area distance-wise that I am comfortable traveling. Two, it was a restaurant and restaurants are one of the places I avoid as they invoke extreme anxiety. Doesn't matter where it's located, what size it is or how many people are inside, the result is the same for me - intense anxiety and panic attacks. (And just in case you were wondering, I can assure you it was not the company either. If you were to ask dh, he'd tell you I refuse to eat out with him as well.) Lastly, as I mentioned previously to you both, there is the issue of eating out causing me rather bad stomach distress. My best guess is that it's the way it's prepared. Whatever the case, with the sole exception of Subway, eating out for me = bad gastrointestinal distress for hours afterward. Couple that with my anxiety and it's just really not good.
Really?! And I don't? Do you realize that each time we have been down to see you since I found out my problem, there was no offer for me as for food? I can't go for hours without eating. And you didn't want ds to go without you because he doesn't know us that well and you said you didn't know how he would react, not that each time we are down there he is all over us.
I tried to explain all of this to the both of you but felt you weren't willing to hear what I was saying because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. To clarify, I'm not saying this was your intention, merely that it is how I felt. It seemed that the only acceptable answer was, "Sounds great! Can't wait!" and anything else was dismissed outright.
I tried to explain all of this to the both of you but felt you weren't willing to hear what I was saying because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. To clarify, I'm not saying this was your intention, merely that it is how I felt. It seemed that the only acceptable answer was, "Sounds great! Can't wait!" and anything else was dismissed outright.
Do you not also realize that in all of our conversation you do the most talking and alot of background talk is in your home, wich is fine most of the time.
I have spent about 30+ years of my life being taught that my feelings and thoughts didn't matter. Worse than that actually. I was made to feel that I didn't have a right to feel anything beyond what I was told I 'should' or 'ought to' feel. Basically I was expected to endure whatever abuse and disrespect they dished out silently and without complaint. More to the point, I was expected to be GRATEFUL for it because, as one clearly so undeserving, they had wasted their precious time and efforts on me anyway when, by all rights, they should have walked away and left me. I was nothing and I meant nothing to them. The few times I scrounged up the courage to speak up for myself - always done respectfully and voiced as more of a whisper - I was immediately labeled bad, wrong, ungrateful, disrespectful, selfish, "unable to take a joke" and, most hurtful of all, "too sensitive".
AM I sensitive? You bet and with darn good reason too. I'd challenge anyone to go through what I went through, to be told every single day how stupid and worthless and undeserving they are and NOT come out of it sensitive. The alternative is death, be it physically at one's own hand or emotionally from giving up the fight. Yes, I am sensitive but TOO sensitive? I think not.
Another hot button for me is being lied to. Dad, with all due respect, you know full well that you most certainly did make the comment to me that my house is too small for you and NSM. Denying it and lying about it won't make it un-said. Now, I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Let's say that, yes, you did make the comment but it was not intended as hurtful or disrespectful, which it how it was received by me. I could understand that. Heck, we've all stuck our foot in our mouth at one time or another or had what we were trying to say come out wrong. It happens. As some would say, that's life. But if that were the case, why not just say, "You know, I apologize for hurting your feelings. What I said came out wrong." or "I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by what I said."?
As you both know by now, I have a long history of being lied to by NM, NSJ and NHS. There are things I know for a fact happened, like the abuse, only to be told by all of them that it never happened and that I'M the one exaggerating or flat out lying. I'm not stupid, nor am I crazy, obviously, so I know what happened to me. Lying about it not only makes what actually happened that much worse but it's also an insult to my intelligence. By lying, they are projecting fault onto me instead of accepting responsibility themselves.
I do not appreciate being compared to [them]. We have treated you with respect and listened to some very harsh words from you. As for what dad said to you I didn't hear the conversation. I personally don't think your home is small, we just wanted to do something different.
Ultimately, what I ask of you both is all I've ever asked of anyone - just to be treated with respect. Being treated rudely or dismissively, being lied to, having you consistently be speaking to someone in the background or watching television when I call or being told my opinion is flat out wrong rather than simply expressing disagreement are all examples of not being treated with respect. Being treated like I'm a disappointment to you both simply because my choices don't go along with what you both would choose is another good example.
Ultimately, what I ask of you both is all I've ever asked of anyone - just to be treated with respect. Being treated rudely or dismissively, being lied to, having you consistently be speaking to someone in the background or watching television when I call or being told my opinion is flat out wrong rather than simply expressing disagreement are all examples of not being treated with respect. Being treated like I'm a disappointment to you both simply because my choices don't go along with what you both would choose is another good example.
Personally I think you are taking too much controll over everday things in your life and are unwilling to compromise. It sounds hard, but it's your way or no way.
For a long time now, I've felt that your love and approval of me is conditional.
For a long time now, I've felt that your love and approval of me is conditional.
This I don't get at all...and it hurts..very much
I don't expect that you will understand or agree with all the choices I make for my life but I would hope you could understand that it is my choice to make and respect my right to do so. I don't need to be chastised like a child just because I dyed my hair purple or made to feel like a bad mother because I have a medical issue - my anxiety - that prohibits me from going certain places right now. My greatest nightmare, next to something happening that would take ds away from me, would be for him to grow up and live like I do, afraid to go out and crippled by anxiety. I wouldn't wish such an existence on my worst enemy. I think it was cruel and unnecessary to throw it in my face and imply that I am deficient as a mother or scarring my child because of something that is out of my control.
I don't expect that you will understand or agree with all the choices I make for my life but I would hope you could understand that it is my choice to make and respect my right to do so. I don't need to be chastised like a child just because I dyed my hair purple or made to feel like a bad mother because I have a medical issue - my anxiety - that prohibits me from going certain places right now. My greatest nightmare, next to something happening that would take ds away from me, would be for him to grow up and live like I do, afraid to go out and crippled by anxiety. I wouldn't wish such an existence on my worst enemy. I think it was cruel and unnecessary to throw it in my face and imply that I am deficient as a mother or scarring my child because of something that is out of my control.
Who said that???
It's bad enough that I have to live with the reality that it will negatively affect him at all. I would think that, as parents yourselves, you would know the pain of, despite your best efforts to the contrary, your actions hurting your child.
Rest assured, I'm doing the best I can. The result of 30+ years of trauma and abuse isn't going to be undone in a handful of therapy visits and going out to a couple places a few times. It's going to take months of hard work and emotional upheaval to get it all sorted out. I get that it's frustrating to people who just want to go out and have a good time and don't see what the big deal is and I don't expect you both to fully understand. Actually, I think this is one of those things that one can never fully understand unless they've lived through it and had it affect their life the way it's affected mine. But I would hope that you both could at least be a little compassionate for what I'm going/have gone through.
It's bad enough that I have to live with the reality that it will negatively affect him at all. I would think that, as parents yourselves, you would know the pain of, despite your best efforts to the contrary, your actions hurting your child.
Rest assured, I'm doing the best I can. The result of 30+ years of trauma and abuse isn't going to be undone in a handful of therapy visits and going out to a couple places a few times. It's going to take months of hard work and emotional upheaval to get it all sorted out. I get that it's frustrating to people who just want to go out and have a good time and don't see what the big deal is and I don't expect you both to fully understand. Actually, I think this is one of those things that one can never fully understand unless they've lived through it and had it affect their life the way it's affected mine. But I would hope that you both could at least be a little compassionate for what I'm going/have gone through.
We do, but why do you have to rip us a new one when we want to do something and it doesn't fit you? We could have met up with dh. And why is it O.K. for you to talk with us like this, we're supposed to take it and not feel hurt, upset, sad.
And just to clarify, I'm not saying I'm perfect or blameless here. I fully admit to a certain degree of responsibility myself in our relationship. One good example is my needing to learn how to speak up in the moment instead of bottling everything up all the time until I cannot take anymore and then explode. But by the same token, I also don't think it's exactly fair to make out that you all have consistently been the only ones to bend over backward or otherwise imply that I haven't contributed anything at all. I call, I send pictures and updates on my family, I offer prayers and support at difficult times, I've played "sounding board" for you both, I've remembered special occasions, etc. and the last two times you guys came down here to visit (not including this last time, of course), I've gone outside my comfort zone in an effort to accommodate you both and ensure you had a nice time while visiting us, just to name a few. True, I may not be able to travel at this time but I do my best to try and make up for that in other ways and it would be nice to receive just a little appreciation for what I am able to do and have done instead of, more often, hearing how I could improve or where I've disappointed you.
I think I've stated my feelings here in a very polite, mature, respectful manner. No cursing, no attacks, no insults, just an honest explanation of my feelings in the hope that we can find some common ground and go forward. I hope and pray that your responses and intentions will be the same.
And just to clarify, I'm not saying I'm perfect or blameless here. I fully admit to a certain degree of responsibility myself in our relationship. One good example is my needing to learn how to speak up in the moment instead of bottling everything up all the time until I cannot take anymore and then explode. But by the same token, I also don't think it's exactly fair to make out that you all have consistently been the only ones to bend over backward or otherwise imply that I haven't contributed anything at all. I call, I send pictures and updates on my family, I offer prayers and support at difficult times, I've played "sounding board" for you both, I've remembered special occasions, etc. and the last two times you guys came down here to visit (not including this last time, of course), I've gone outside my comfort zone in an effort to accommodate you both and ensure you had a nice time while visiting us, just to name a few. True, I may not be able to travel at this time but I do my best to try and make up for that in other ways and it would be nice to receive just a little appreciation for what I am able to do and have done instead of, more often, hearing how I could improve or where I've disappointed you.
I think I've stated my feelings here in a very polite, mature, respectful manner. No cursing, no attacks, no insults, just an honest explanation of my feelings in the hope that we can find some common ground and go forward. I hope and pray that your responses and intentions will be the same.
Just because there was no cursing [doesn't mean] there were [no] attacks and insults.
You have NO idea how much I love you and try so hard to understand ALL of what's going on with you. I've been through some of what is happening to you. And as some people point out to me I'm much stronger then I think I am. But little do most know how hurt I am by many things that have happened to me with my family. I do not like resolving proplems through emails. You get wrong attitudes because of the way each person reads them. And last, I'm tired of getting these letters, I'm about ready to stop emails and the computer all together, hardly go on FB any more. Just please do not compare us with [NM, NSJ and NHS]. This visit might have hit a nerve but our intent was not to upset anyone, not even us. We are getting older and our time coming down there might get less with the hope of a new call, there is so much we want to do with the Church and time is running out. I told you we REALLY needed R&R and it really hurts that we didn't get to see all of you. I will tell you something I have notice is that even when we were on line (skype) with you, you were very nervious. I could tell that the closer we got to coming down the stress in your voice started. And maybe if we lived closer and saw you more that might not happen, but, I don't think so. I think you find it safe to talk with us over the phone and it's even braver through email and that is more comforting and controlled for you. That is not a criticism just fact that I can feel in you and know it's there. So I will end it here, the rest of the week is very busy with work and Holy week. Take care of each other.
unconditional: without condition or limatations, absolute.
without condition or limatation....think about that, when have we not done that? There is a time in each of us when we know when to let something go or move on or let pass till later. Sometimes later doesn't come. In this case not coming down because of the stress we may have put on you was the let it pass till later. But we never forget our love for our family and special friends. You have my love, support, friendship,and respect. NSM
You have NO idea how much I love you and try so hard to understand ALL of what's going on with you. I've been through some of what is happening to you. And as some people point out to me I'm much stronger then I think I am. But little do most know how hurt I am by many things that have happened to me with my family. I do not like resolving proplems through emails. You get wrong attitudes because of the way each person reads them. And last, I'm tired of getting these letters, I'm about ready to stop emails and the computer all together, hardly go on FB any more. Just please do not compare us with [NM, NSJ and NHS]. This visit might have hit a nerve but our intent was not to upset anyone, not even us. We are getting older and our time coming down there might get less with the hope of a new call, there is so much we want to do with the Church and time is running out. I told you we REALLY needed R&R and it really hurts that we didn't get to see all of you. I will tell you something I have notice is that even when we were on line (skype) with you, you were very nervious. I could tell that the closer we got to coming down the stress in your voice started. And maybe if we lived closer and saw you more that might not happen, but, I don't think so. I think you find it safe to talk with us over the phone and it's even braver through email and that is more comforting and controlled for you. That is not a criticism just fact that I can feel in you and know it's there. So I will end it here, the rest of the week is very busy with work and Holy week. Take care of each other.
unconditional: without condition or limatations, absolute.
without condition or limatation....think about that, when have we not done that? There is a time in each of us when we know when to let something go or move on or let pass till later. Sometimes later doesn't come. In this case not coming down because of the stress we may have put on you was the let it pass till later. But we never forget our love for our family and special friends. You have my love, support, friendship,and respect. NSM
Kristin xoxo
P.S. I would like it if, for just the next few exchanges, we could keep things to email. I just feel it will give all of us the best chance to say all we need to say without worrying about getting interrupted or forgetting or whatever and we can all have an equal chance to have our say.
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